Rodney Hart: Welcome back to another episode of Event Perspectives. Another one I’m extremely excited about, joined by Brian Mason, who is the VP of strategy and operations at the Corporate Event Marketers Association, or CEMA, as it’s known. Brian also has an extensive background at some brands you may have heard of, including Salesforce. I can’t wait, Brian, to talk about some of that experience and also how you’re working to transition and bring those lessons to building CEMA. But before we get there, welcome. How are you?

Brian Mason: I’m good, man. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m excited about this.

Rodney Hart: Me too. You have a deep, extensive production background. So in the back of my mind, I really hope to try and impress you as we go through this experience.

Brian Mason: I love it.

Rodney Hart: Before we get going, I’d love to start with an icebreaker question just to get the conversation going. One of the things I love about events, usually at a distance after they’ve happened, is the stories you get out of them. So I’d love to know: what’s the funniest or most unexpected moment that happened during an event?

Brian Mason: So this is a tough one. This is the one that breaks my heart. It happened during COVID, so you can imagine the deep restrictions that were in place. We had an event on a rooftop in Washington D.C. There were six people in the audience and they had to be 12 feet apart. I had a cameraman and a production person with me, and Marc Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce, came and spoke and gave the keynote that we were filming. Well, it poured down rain. Like it was raining so hard. I had a face mask on, I had goggles on, I had a poncho on. It was terrible. Our monitors went out, and Marc, like a champion, stood up there with an umbrella and gave this full keynote to everyone watching. It was unforgettable. I don’t know if it was amazing, but it was unforgettable. And then at the end of it, we had Sara Bareilles playing on a baby grand piano in the rain. I remember giving her a towel and she’s wiping the water off the piano. Then again, like a champion, she sang two songs out in the rain. It was probably the worst Salesforce event that ever took place. And I was like, “Oh, I’m so glad I have a face mask on and goggles and all the things.”

Rodney Hart: Brian, was the rain predicted? Was it an unexpected monsoon? At what point did you know you were in for it?

Brian Mason: The night before, at 11:00 at night, they said, “Okay, we’re going to do this. We’re going to see if it rains or not. Go find tents.” And I’m like, “At 11:00 at night, we’re finding tents?” So production got up at 6:00 a.m. We got popup tents from Home Depot and put them up. And of course they weren’t good enough for the rain. It was literally the most rain Washington D.C. had seen in the entire year. Just a downpour. And the bad part was it didn’t even lightning. If it had lightning, it would have been dangerous and we would have had to get off the roof. No, it just rained. A solid rain. The most unforgettable experience I’ve ever had, for sure.

Rodney Hart: That’s such a phenomenal story. The icing on the cake for me is Sara Bareilles, who I love as an artist. I’m picturing some of her sad songs serenading the six people in the crowd. But I’m guessing in post, the video was better than the moment live. Is that true?

Brian Mason: I’m going to say I hope it was. I’m kind of hoping it gets archived somewhere and people just forget about it.

Rodney Hart: I think I’m going to join the audience and try to find this video on Salesforce+ somewhere. That’s why I wanted to kick it off this way, because you already hit on some of the things that people either love or probably hate about this industry. The “it’s 11 p.m., go find tents” moment. And I think for those of us who stick around, we must have a sneaking desire for that chaos a little bit, or to reign that chaos in.

Brian Mason: Really, I like to think of it as my NFL Sunday. You prepare all week and you get ready, and then it’s game day. It’s happening or not. You’ve got to go out and play. And that’s the deal. It’s going to rain or not. We’ve got people invited. They’re coming. They’re showing up. And that’s what we love about events.

Rodney Hart: That date doesn’t move. And I’ve told that to people who aren’t in the event space. They’re like, “Rodney, it’s not a Super Bowl. You’re not preparing for the Super Bowl.” And I’m like, “You don’t understand. We are. The team is getting ready. And whatever the defense throws at us, we’ve got to be ready.”

Brian, before we get into CEMA, because I do want to get to what you’re working on there and how you’re looking to build and grow that brand, I want to talk a little bit about your experience beforehand. Even before Salesforce. I’ve been using ChatGPT as my co-producer: I take a screenshot of someone’s LinkedIn and put it in and ask, “Hey, what’s a good kickoff question?” So what ChatGPT and I want to know is: what brought you into events? I see some corporate sales experience, some real estate experience. What brought you in and what’s kept you there?

Brian Mason: In my early career, I was in TV and film. I lived in Los Angeles and worked on what I call big-budget bad movies and game shows. Kind of weird, but it was behind the scenes in the film industry, and that’s what I worked on. Then somewhere in the transition, I got into events. It just felt right, like one move to the other. I moved from Los Angeles back to Indianapolis. When I got back, I started with a company called ExactTarget. ExactTarget eventually got bought by Salesforce and became Marketing Cloud. At ExactTarget, I found Billy Little, who is a longtime CEMA member, and she hired me on as an event producer. And I was like, “Hey, this feels right to me. It’s got all the elements: production, move-in dates, all the pieces coming together.” That’s kind of how I fell into events. It just felt right.

Rodney Hart: That is interesting, because those similarities are real. My first exposure to production was at large-scale events during my career at Dell before RainFocus. I got introduced to the world of almost broadcast production in the transition to digital events. I learned really quickly: a run-of-show document, if your events are down to the minute, the run-of-show is down to the second or the half-second. I remember my brain having to process how much more detail you need in that production space.

I’m curious: what’s the most similar and what’s the most different between TV production and event production?

Brian Mason: I think one of the things that’s most similar for me is working with so many different groups, so many different vendors. It all comes together and you kind of have to wrangle all of those vendors to make one common goal happen, one vision. And when it all comes together, it feels like a team sport. That same thing happens in both TV and event production: you’re taking all these moving pieces and making them into one goal.

I think the difference for me is that with corporate events, it never ends. In TV and film, you have that project that lasts three or four months and then boom, you’re off to the next. With corporate events, boom, you’ve got one and it’s right after the other. There’s no season anymore. There used to be a spring season, then summer slowed down, then fall picked up again. Now it’s all year round.

Rodney Hart: And especially coming from a brand like Salesforce that does such a phenomenal job of really utilizing events to drive business results. I think you hit on something I had never considered. In TV production, you generally care how well the show did, but at the end of the day the metrics are the metrics and you’re on to the next project. Whereas in events, it’s always: how did it perform? What should have been different? What are the results? And how do we learn from that?

Brian Mason: Yeah, and some of those big-budget TV projects, it’s like, “Nobody watched. It’s okay. What’s the next project?” And some of those end up as cult hits a year down the road. You never know about those things.

Rodney Hart: Oh boy, I could go off on a TV tangent right now, but I’ll stay on message. Brian, before we get into CEMA, I want to talk about that decision. I think people listening to this who are executing at a high level at a great brand might be saying, “When do you know?” I’d love to know how your career path evolved at Salesforce and at what point this opportunity came up and you said, “Now is the right time.”

Brian Mason: I jokingly always say I had seven two-year careers at Salesforce. From ExactTarget, to working in the keynote room, to world tours, to starting the broadcast production team. I had these little careers inside Salesforce as I grew. Something I tell people all the time is: raise your hand. There is always opportunity. If you see that opportunity ahead of you, raise your hand, because they’re looking for someone to pick that up and do it. I was always asking: what’s my next step? How can I be of help to the company and fill a need that’s there? At a company like Salesforce, there was always a need. I think when I first started we were around 10,000 employees, and when I left it was 80,000. So there was always something that needed to be done.

And I think that’s kind of what happened when CEMA came around. I’ve been a CEMA member for 12 years and was on the board of directors. When the VP position became available, I wasn’t necessarily looking, but I thought, “Oh, now feels like the right time. I’m going to raise my hand.” And it was. We weren’t expecting this position to be open, and when it came available, I was like, “I think I’ll try this.”

Rodney Hart: And what was the hardest thing to leave behind?

Brian Mason: I love learning and growing and challenging myself. Coming over to this organization and starting to run it was something I had never done. I’ll admit, I was new at this and there were things I didn’t know, and I was learning as I went, which is great because it keeps me fresh. I think the hardest thing to leave behind at Salesforce was the people. Like many of us, you just become close to those people. The events industry lends itself to that. You go through the battles of an event and you become really close friends. I’m still close with all those friends. And that’s actually why CEMA was really attractive, because now I get to go to ServiceNow Knowledge and see behind the scenes there with people I used to work with. I get to go to Workday and be behind the scenes with people I used to work with, because those people have moved on to other companies as well.

Rodney Hart: Yeah, I totally agree with that. And the beauty of the events space is that it always feels like a small world. You’re bumping into many of those same names. As it relates to CEMA, you’d been a member for a long time. As a member, did you raise your hand with thoughts in your mind like, “This is an organization that’s doing everything I want to see,” or more like, “I love this organization, but I also have some thoughts about where I’d like to see it go”?

Brian Mason: For me, it was a bit of both. I’d watched my career grow through CEMA just as it grew through Salesforce. I’ve built really strong relationships. Gordon Stake at EMP is one of the vendors I’ve been with for a long time, who became a friend and helped me grow. When I came to CEMA, there was a bit of, “Hey, I want to give back.” I feel like this organization needed a little guidance and I wanted to see where I could do that, because people like it. People want to be a part of it. They want to learn and grow. We’re just trying to figure out how to do that better.

Rodney Hart: I love hearing all those pieces. Now that I’ve seen you in that role, I can say confidently that you have both the intellectual curiosity and a really healthy sense of what’s going well and where to steer things. I know one of the biggest challenges you’ve hinted at is growing that brand and reputation and getting it seen more. So tell me: what is CEMA today and how do you start to get that exposure to new verticals and newer audiences?

Brian Mason: For those who might not be familiar with CEMA, we’ve been around 35 years and we grew out of the tech industry. We were originally started as the Computer Event Marketing Association.

Rodney Hart: Oh, I had no idea. Good to know.

Brian Mason: Then later changed to “Corporate Events,” like, “Okay, we’ve got to get out of computers and broaden out.” So we have a very tech focus. Tech events are big, and now for us it’s: how do we grow outside of the tech industry? How do we look at other industries that have bigger events and want to be part of CEMA? We have those members already. We just need to make sure we’re reaching out to those industries and letting them know we’re here. The other big area is global growth. It’s really interesting: when PCMA purchased CEMA in 2021, they brought in infrastructure that CEMA hadn’t had. And so it allows us now to work with global markets that maybe we didn’t have connections with before. We’re doing our first study tour in London in June. That’s our first foray into another country. We’re saying, “Hey, we’re going to be part of this and grow this outside of the United States as well.” Industry and global growth are the two big areas where we can expand.

Rodney Hart: From a strategic perspective, I know there’s been a lot of focus on dinners versus events versus education. I’m curious: have you seen results, whether from anecdotal feedback or surveys, around how people want to meet their peers? In many ways this series is something I’m selfishly excited about because it lets me have these conversations. When I was at a large organization, I always wanted to know: who’s doing my role somewhere else? How do I access them? What are you finding people are craving the most from CEMA?

Brian Mason: One of the interesting things I’ve found in onboarding new members is that a lot of events people are introverts. The idea of networking to them is like, “Oh no, I don’t want to do this.” So we try to help facilitate that. We try to connect people in ways where it’s easier to make a good connection and become friends. In a non-selling atmosphere, it’s really about building strong relationships. And I think that’s what’s kept CEMA around a really long time. Some of the OGs will say, “We have built relationships with people we not only do business with but travel with. They come to our kids’ weddings.” They become real friends.

I think people come to CEMA for innovation, networking, and education. And we try to provide that. One thing is showing people new technology, innovation that they might not even have had time to evaluate through an RFP. We try to provide that opportunity to see what’s out there.

Rodney Hart: And one of the ways I actually first met you, when you were still at Salesforce, was at a study tour. I will say this without any hyperbole: to me, CEMA study tours present some of the very best opportunities to learn that I’ve encountered. I’d love for you to tell people a little bit about them, because I think that’s one of the most valuable experiences I’ve had in the last couple of years: being able to tour a Salesforce event and have access to those leaders. Can you talk a little bit about study tours and your strategy around them?

Brian Mason: Study tours are two-day events where we go to large user conferences, award shows, sporting events, and entertainment events, and we go behind the scenes. It’s access to the event, to the event producers, to the event executives that you just don’t normally get. We were just at ServiceNow Knowledge two weeks ago for a behind-the-scenes visit, getting access to Debbie Brewer and Jim Leer, who run head of brand and head of global events, to hear how they build their brand and their teams. You just don’t get that. And to be in a small group of 30 people, which is the max for study tours, it really helps build that relationship. You get the access, you get the behind-the-scenes view, and you start to see things differently.

There were probably three different groups on one particular study tour who were all doing events at the Venetian. They came in and were like, “Oh my god, we didn’t think about using it this way.” You get to take nuggets from the study tours and build relationships along the way. You spend two days with people. You really get to know people in two days.

Rodney Hart: It was a phenomenal experience. That access you described, I don’t know that there’s anything else out there quite like it. For that alone, I feel like the study tours are worth the membership, beyond the summit and the other opportunities you have. People need to know about those study tours.

Brian Mason: And we’ve grown them. They kind of died down during COVID, and then in 2023 we did two. In 2024, we did six. We’ll do nine this year. They range from things like going to the US Olympic Swimming Trials to Workday Rising to the CMA Music Awards. They vary, and that variety is the point. You find inspiration in a lot of different places. So many times going to a user conference, you’re like, “I’ve been there, I’ve done that.” So I want to do something a little different. That’s why we go to things like the NFL Draft, which went from being something really basic to this huge fan activation spectacle. You see that and think, “How did they create this?” Finding those things helps us find innovation and creativity.

Rodney Hart: Such good points. I’m curious, as you’re building and growing the CEMA brand and trying to get it to new verticals: you come from Salesforce and the budget and allocation that comes with that. What are the challenges you face as you look at growing the CEMA organization and how are you approaching those?

Brian Mason: I think for us in growing CEMA, it’s finding those new audiences. One of the things we haven’t done as an organization very well is brand CEMA. It’s kind of stayed. We’re about 800 members right now, and when I joined 12 years ago we were about 300. So there’s been growth, but not a huge amount, and I think that’s also something we like about it. Right now it’s a 60/40 split: 60% event marketers and 40% industry partners. We keep it intentionally sized. So I think for us it’s: how do we grow the organization while retaining the culture and the community that has always been the heart of CEMA?

Rodney Hart: In a year from now, if we’re having this conversation again, what would you say was success? Is there a key metric, a membership pulse check? What would you want to see different about CEMA than it is today?

Brian Mason: In ten to twelve weeks from now, we’ll see CEMA Summit in Austin, and that’s going to be a key indicator of how successful we’ve been this year. I think the idea that most of our study tours are sellouts already is a sign that motivation is picking up and we’re starting to see more people want to be involved. At every study tour, I have a couple of people who aren’t CEMA members yet saying, “Oh my god, why am I not here? How do I not know about this?” So really it’s about getting that voice out. Our LinkedIn page has grown by over 2,500 people in the last year, and we look at those metrics. We’re starting to see community growth.

Rodney Hart: Awesome. I will check in, whether we do another episode or how we do it. I want to do a follow-up and see where we’re at on some of those. Fascinating conversation and topics around how you’re trying to bring those lessons from your career and pour back into an organization that you clearly got a ton from. I’m also getting a ton from CEMA as well. Thank you very much for that.

I’ve got one more question we like to ask all of our guests. The events industry can be a stressful place to be. We may have people thinking about getting into it or who are recently in it. Do you have a favorite piece of advice, either something you were given or wisdom you’ve cultivated over the course of your career, that you’d want to share with fellow or aspiring event professionals?

Brian Mason: Two things really stand out for me. One is: change is inevitable, so don’t fight it. Go with the change. You have an end goal in mind, and just plan for the fact that change is going to happen. If you let it stress you out, it will eat you up. Just go with the flow. We are important and we’re important to business development, but we’re not curing children’s cancer. We’re in events. So remain calm and know that change is going to come.

And then: at Team 25, we were doing a behind-the-scenes visit and Linda, the head of community there, said, “Be kind.” And I thought, “Wow, how simple is that?” But that simplicity carries real value. Just be kind to those you’re working with and be kind to your attendees. That will pay dividends.

Rodney Hart: Brian, that’s amazing advice. I love asking this question because everyone has a slightly different flavor, but sometimes the simplest thing, like “be kind,” is the most powerful. Because it is stressful. You’re watching the rain pour down on your CEO while the piano’s getting soaked, and it’s like, “All this planning, all this work, and here we are.” But being able to find those moments, or recognizing that this is not life or death, and maybe there’s a story in here that will be funny later, not right now, but later. Brian, thank you so much for joining. I’ve got one more section with some fun lightning questions, but for the audience, if you’re listening, feel free to follow Brian and go check out CEMA. Highly recommend it if you’re in the event marketing space. The access to your peers is going to be invaluable. And if you’re listening and want to join an episode, there’s a link in the description to let me know. It’ll come to me and we’ll get it scheduled.

Awesome, Brian. Are we ready for lightning questions?

Brian Mason: Let’s do them.

Rodney Hart: Okay. I barely ever keep my rule where I don’t react, but I’m supposed to ask the question and move on. We’ll see how I do. Are you ready?

Brian Mason: Yeah.

Rodney Hart: True or false: you prefer smaller intimate events over large-scale ones.

Brian Mason: False. I’m a large-scale person. The bigger the event, the better. Scarred by that six-person rooftop event.

Rodney Hart: Which is harder to plan: multi-day virtual or multi-day in-person events?

Brian Mason: Multi-day in person. There’s just too much on the line: food and beverage, hotel rooms, all the things. In person, for me.

Rodney Hart: The best airline is Delta.

Brian Mason: 1.2 million miles, man. They suck me in. I’m there.

Rodney Hart: I’m on the Delta train as of the last couple of years. I’m with you. Window seat or aisle seat?

Brian Mason: Aisle. I need to be able to get up and get down. I can’t be having a conversation when I need to get up.

Rodney Hart: You have a concert to close your event. Who is your dream musical artist?

Brian Mason: I am a country music fan, so very rarely do I get country music artists at corporate events. Any country music person would be amazing. If I could get anyone, no budget concerns: Kacey Musgraves.

Rodney Hart: Love it. What’s your go-to comfort food during event planning stress?

Brian Mason: Diet Coke and cookies. Diet Coke in one hand and a cookie in the other.

Rodney Hart: What kind of cookie?

Brian Mason: Oatmeal raisin.

Rodney Hart: True or false: you’ve hosted an event in more than three countries.

Brian Mason: True. I was on the world tour team. We were road warriors for sure.

Rodney Hart: True or false: you pack gym clothes when attending an event you’re planning.

Brian Mason: True. I always pack gym clothes. I don’t always use them, but I always pack them. I try to get one or two days in.

Rodney Hart: What percentage of trips have you looked at them and said, “I didn’t use them”?

Brian Mason: I’d say I’m 50/50. I’m pretty good.

Rodney Hart: Closing event party: live music or DJ?

Brian Mason: For me, a good DJ set is live music. I’m good with both. I’m a live music person, so if I have a great DJ, it’s just as good as live.

Rodney Hart: Love it. Brian, thank you so much. That was a lot of fun. And for everyone watching, I hope you had some fun as well.

Brian Mason: Rodney, thank you so much. My pleasure.